Whitelist Ranks Changes.

[Falko]

PROBLEM
Currently, Whitelist ranks are a problem (i1 and EoW under), I do not think theres any point or way in which XP ranks are useful, not only do they degrade the competency and worth of i2's and i1's, whom may just be there because they afk'd for the XP, or they are simply incompetent or won't be inactive, the same goes for EOW. XP ranks also makes the merit system completely pointless, considering that its basically just for SV's now, but even so I don't think a lot of people are going to be chosen for SV just from the merit system, since we also have an application system.

SOLUTION
It'd rather be better to just remove the XP system, and replace it with a whitelist system (i2-i1 and EoW for whitelists) and then actually have the merit system be something that's not entirely pointless. This would allow for us to have more competent senior enlisted, and people who the leadership knows and trusts to do their job, and if they do over their job, they get promotions and merits, simple as.

ENDING
This may be unpopular with some players, but I think it'll be for the better, considering we'll finally have a good senior enlisted team, and as well something for the merit system to actually mark up too. As well, a few players have told me about the fact that if the server has atleast 5 same players who are active and grind CP, they could all get SMGs, and this becomes an obvious problem for the rebels, eventually if the server stays in this growth for long enough, the server will have enough people, with enough ranks, that could hop on CP, to cause problems for rebels because of how many SMG's there are. (I understand this portion of the topic is weaker, but I think it'd help balancing)

 

[johnhoward]

+support honestly you should earn ranks on the field if you are deemed fit i like this idea

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

Oh boy this is a mixed bag of goodies here...



I can see the benefits and downsides of both methods.



Its down to the CP mains really but i feel either a whitelist system, or a points system where you get points that are used to dictate perms by doing normal CP activities and can be commended extra points by SQL+ would work best.



A way to keep SMGs from becoming super common is to make them either SQL+ exclusive, unrest+ exclusive, or SQL+ exclusive UNLESS its unrest+. Imma be honest, reb bias aside, Im not a big fan of the impulse "12 CPs with SMGs" special.

 

[neutral]

+1

I personally like the suggestion; it'll allow for more in-character promotions and a use for merits.

 

[MR.MOON]

Any rebel player can hop on i1 with 0 experience. This will never lead to a good outcome. A lot of CPs are inexperienced or straight up mingey on worringly high ranks. i4-i3 should simply be a training where someone who is qualified gives the i4 the basics like how to use his baton, join PTs, some standard codes and protocols for city codes. After that, they'll be given the rank of i3. Then merits will come into play for getting promoted to i2 and i1. Would also be a healthy shift away from applications to simply commendable performance that results in promotions to OfC instead of just filling out a format, as anyone can write an app but not everyone can be a responsible supervisor.

Same should apply for OTA^

+1 I've played these games before... (Never ends well)

 

[DeerDust]

+1, some refinement needs to be done to the current rank system for non-SVs and whitelists would work great as long as the factions create proper structures and reinforce a merit & promotion-based system. Either faction may also implement trainings for ranks after promotion especially for i2 to i1 or OWS to EOW. I also generally believe that some kind of training for i4 to i3 is a huge net benefit for the faction and for the server as a whole, even if it may feel restrictive in some specific situations.

You can additionally attempt to mix a whitelist system with some kind of Rank Points system that rewards you for good performance for specific ranks, but I'd be fine with just a system with more whitelists and supervision than the wild west of this type of XP system currently found in the server.

 

[Hey all scott here]

-1- TEXT WALL INBOUND: Alright I'm neutral to a point. Do I believe there SHOULD be a method for i4 to be trained and get into i3 or some form of training that would be needed, yes. However, do I think that we should make every rank behind a WL, no.​

I know you hear this a lot as a near "back in my day" but on Impulse, the ranks that were WL'd were SqL+ then later OfC+ when OfC was added. Was there a problem with people getting on i1 and being stupid? Not that much since when Supervisors (SV) were active they payed closest attention to that i1/i2 (SE) demographic since (lets follow chain of command) were responsible for PT teams. Now if an i1 was being unfit well there were solutions to the problem, marking them defunct or a combine ban (DvL+) were the most common, yet this was surprisingly rare since a majority of i1s were trying their best to become an SqL or later an OfC, which gave them more tangible responsibility.

Now here is the thing SE are not SV, yes they lead but not lead in the sense of they need a bunch of merits, so is it worthwhile for someone to need a lot of merits to lead 3 people, like come one now. SE do have a responsibility to lead units and communicate with SV about units that are not behaving appropriately so that SV can handle the situation; and when that responsibility is not met that falls on the SV to ensure it is.

NOW would merits work in terms of promotion to SV? Yea I would say so, the SV should choose their applicants based off of their behavior and character in game. However, the promotion to SE should not be, it should be based off of experience not a merit that there is a chance of getting when the SV decides to give merits out. I have seen people on other servers play for months on MPF or OTA and not get promoted even though they do everything right all because of SV did nothing which can happen a lot. There is a reason that auto-promotion systems exist in the real world. So the dependency of a SV being online whether or not you get a rank that is not even a rank with complete responsibility (SE) is lack of a better term stupid.

As for the i4/i3 training. yes it should be implemented. I have played impulse servers for a LONG while now, and there should be a training involved when getting the ranks of i4/i3. I have seen a lot of i4s who do not know anything at all and there should be training for them. I think the training should more or less be the entrance to the faction, it doesn't have to be intense, but it needs to be more than that beautiful 6 question quiz that I swear the questions were changed once in all of the gamemode's history. It can be a simple as an i4 to get access to the rest of the ranks you need to promote to i3 via a training/XP, while everything else can stick to XP. Plus, again it's SV's responsibility to ensure SE take some time to train them as well: so think like SE trains, SV tests/passes the i4 to that WL that allows them to proceed into i3 and above. Again re-enforcing that SE SV relationship while also making a way that allows for better training.

With the idea of rebels hopping on i1 without training, yes that is a potential problem but in practice I rarely have seen it. Now, I understand that there can be a problem with terminology, yet it really is not that hard to grasp after 5 minutes of playing. As for leadership, I have seen some of the best leadership come from rebels that lead shotcops and that translates perfectly well when they switch on over and lead a PT against one. With that training idea, of to get access to anything above i4 you need training, this would not be a problem any more. Plus, I think that rebels know the combine rules a lot more since they will call out any slight breaking of the rules from the combine to keep that gear so...yeah.

For the argument that too many i1s will exist with SMGs or other equipment, I have not reached i1 yet but typically the only one that should get SMGs is a i1+ union, since they are the more combative role and everyone else in the grand scheme is support. Again, back on impulse it was set up this way and there were not really any problems from having them since it becomes a percent of CPs that are union and a percent of those unions who are i1. For the other equipment such as GRIDs' throwables and etc, now again I have not ran into this on the server, but I distinctly remember there was a limit of the % GRID that was allowed at a given moment. So that never really was a problem cause they were limited in number.

A majority of +1s come from people who became the high rankings or highest rankings from other servers. Now I understand the ideas behind them, but I think the more casual approach of letting people play the game to ranking up, instead of being dependent of other people or pushed aside because of the possibility of nepotism, is the better more enjoyable method in the long run.

Some things on Impulse were not great, the lack of OTA SVs, RANGERs being fake, no real scanners, Vorts being just a wallhack tool. Yet, Impulse was for the longest time the only server without a WL mechanic and it went great for the longest time. It allowed players to just do one thing and one thing great, play the game without a worry of "I need to promote" or "I need merits", if they wanted to promote to SV they applied and showed it, the community and SV selected who was actually deserved it. If they didn't want to promote they still could hop on i1 and lead their 4 person PT and just have fun.

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

-1- TEXT WALL INBOUND: Alright I'm neutral to a point. Do I believe there SHOULD be a method for i4 to be trained and get into i3 or some form of training that would be needed, yes. However, do I think that we should make every rank behind a WL, no.​

I know you hear this a lot as a near "back in my day" but on Impulse, the ranks that were WL'd were SqL+ then later OfC+ when OfC was added. Was there a problem with people getting on i1 and being stupid? Not that much since when Supervisors (SV) were active they payed closest attention to that i1/i2 (SE) demographic since (lets follow chain of command) were responsible for PT teams. Now if an i1 was being unfit well there were solutions to the problem, marking them defunct or a combine ban (DvL+) were the most common, yet this was surprisingly rare since a majority of i1s were trying their best to become an SqL or later an OfC, which gave them more tangible responsibility.

Now here is the thing SE are not SV, yes they lead but not lead in the sense of they need a bunch of merits, so is it worthwhile for someone to need a lot of merits to lead 3 people, like come one now. SE do have a responsibility to lead units and communicate with SV about units that are not behaving appropriately so that SV can handle the situation; and when that responsibility is not met that falls on the SV to ensure it is.

NOW would merits work in terms of promotion to SV? Yea I would say so, the SV should choose their applicants based off of their behavior and character in game. However, the promotion to SE should not be, it should be based off of experience not a merit that there is a chance of getting when the SV decides to give merits out. I have seen people on other servers play for months on MPF or OTA and not get promoted even though they do everything right all because of SV did nothing which can happen a lot. There is a reason that auto-promotion systems exist in the real world. So the dependency of a SV being online whether or not you get a rank that is not even a rank with complete responsibility (SE) is lack of a better term stupid.

As for the i4/i3 training. yes it should be implemented. I have played impulse servers for a LONG while now, and there should be a training involved when getting the ranks of i4/i3. I have seen a lot of i4s who do not know anything at all and there should be training for them. I think the training should more or less be the entrance to the faction, it doesn't have to be intense, but it needs to be more than that beautiful 6 question quiz that I swear the questions were changed once in all of the gamemode's history. It can be a simple as an i4 to get access to the rest of the ranks you need to promote to i3 via a training/XP, while everything else can stick to XP. Plus, again it's SV's responsibility to ensure SE take some time to train them as well: so think like SE trains, SV tests/passes the i4 to that WL that allows them to proceed into i3 and above. Again re-enforcing that SE SV relationship while also making a way that allows for better training.

With the idea of rebels hopping on i1 without training, yes that is a potential problem but in practice I rarely have seen it. Now, I understand that there can be a problem with terminology, yet it really is not that hard to grasp after 5 minutes of playing. As for leadership, I have seen some of the best leadership come from rebels that lead shotcops and that translates perfectly well when they switch on over and lead a PT against one. With that training idea, of to get access to anything above i4 you need training, this would not be a problem any more. Plus, I think that rebels know the combine rules a lot more since they will call out any slight breaking of the rules from the combine to keep that gear so...yeah.

For the argument that too many i1s will exist with SMGs or other equipment, I have not reached i1 yet but typically the only one that should get SMGs is a i1+ union, since they are the more combative role and everyone else in the grand scheme is support. Again, back on impulse it was set up this way and there were not really any problems from having them since it becomes a percent of CPs that are union and a percent of those unions who are i1. For the other equipment such as GRIDs' throwables and etc, now again I have not ran into this on the server, but I distinctly remember there was a limit of the % GRID that was allowed at a given moment. So that never really was a problem cause they were limited in number.

A majority of +1s come from people who became the high rankings or highest rankings from other servers. Now I understand the ideas behind them, but I think the more casual approach of letting people play the game to ranking up, instead of being dependent of other people or pushed aside because of the possibility of nepotism, is the better more enjoyable method in the long run.

Some things on Impulse were not great, the lack of OTA SVs, RANGERs being fake, no real scanners, Vorts being just a wallhack tool. Yet, Impulse was for the longest time the only server without a WL mechanic and it went great for the longest time. It allowed players to just do one thing and one thing great, play the game without a worry of "I need to promote" or "I need merits", if they wanted to promote to SV they applied and showed it, the community and SV selected who was actually deserved it. If they didn't want to promote they still could hop on i1 and lead their 4 person PT and just have fun.

As a fellow old timer, i feel you hit the nail on the head perfectly.

 

[TheLegend27]

-1- TEXT WALL INBOUND: Alright I'm neutral to a point. Do I believe there SHOULD be a method for i4 to be trained and get into i3 or some form of training that would be needed, yes. However, do I think that we should make every rank behind a WL, no.​

I know you hear this a lot as a near "back in my day" but on Impulse, the ranks that were WL'd were SqL+ then later OfC+ when OfC was added. Was there a problem with people getting on i1 and being stupid? Not that much since when Supervisors (SV) were active they payed closest attention to that i1/i2 (SE) demographic since (lets follow chain of command) were responsible for PT teams. Now if an i1 was being unfit well there were solutions to the problem, marking them defunct or a combine ban (DvL+) were the most common, yet this was surprisingly rare since a majority of i1s were trying their best to become an SqL or later an OfC, which gave them more tangible responsibility.

Now here is the thing SE are not SV, yes they lead but not lead in the sense of they need a bunch of merits, so is it worthwhile for someone to need a lot of merits to lead 3 people, like come one now. SE do have a responsibility to lead units and communicate with SV about units that are not behaving appropriately so that SV can handle the situation; and when that responsibility is not met that falls on the SV to ensure it is.

NOW would merits work in terms of promotion to SV? Yea I would say so, the SV should choose their applicants based off of their behavior and character in game. However, the promotion to SE should not be, it should be based off of experience not a merit that there is a chance of getting when the SV decides to give merits out. I have seen people on other servers play for months on MPF or OTA and not get promoted even though they do everything right all because of SV did nothing which can happen a lot. There is a reason that auto-promotion systems exist in the real world. So the dependency of a SV being online whether or not you get a rank that is not even a rank with complete responsibility (SE) is lack of a better term stupid.

As for the i4/i3 training. yes it should be implemented. I have played impulse servers for a LONG while now, and there should be a training involved when getting the ranks of i4/i3. I have seen a lot of i4s who do not know anything at all and there should be training for them. I think the training should more or less be the entrance to the faction, it doesn't have to be intense, but it needs to be more than that beautiful 6 question quiz that I swear the questions were changed once in all of the gamemode's history. It can be a simple as an i4 to get access to the rest of the ranks you need to promote to i3 via a training/XP, while everything else can stick to XP. Plus, again it's SV's responsibility to ensure SE take some time to train them as well: so think like SE trains, SV tests/passes the i4 to that WL that allows them to proceed into i3 and above. Again re-enforcing that SE SV relationship while also making a way that allows for better training.

With the idea of rebels hopping on i1 without training, yes that is a potential problem but in practice I rarely have seen it. Now, I understand that there can be a problem with terminology, yet it really is not that hard to grasp after 5 minutes of playing. As for leadership, I have seen some of the best leadership come from rebels that lead shotcops and that translates perfectly well when they switch on over and lead a PT against one. With that training idea, of to get access to anything above i4 you need training, this would not be a problem any more. Plus, I think that rebels know the combine rules a lot more since they will call out any slight breaking of the rules from the combine to keep that gear so...yeah.

For the argument that too many i1s will exist with SMGs or other equipment, I have not reached i1 yet but typically the only one that should get SMGs is a i1+ union, since they are the more combative role and everyone else in the grand scheme is support. Again, back on impulse it was set up this way and there were not really any problems from having them since it becomes a percent of CPs that are union and a percent of those unions who are i1. For the other equipment such as GRIDs' throwables and etc, now again I have not ran into this on the server, but I distinctly remember there was a limit of the % GRID that was allowed at a given moment. So that never really was a problem cause they were limited in number.

A majority of +1s come from people who became the high rankings or highest rankings from other servers. Now I understand the ideas behind them, but I think the more casual approach of letting people play the game to ranking up, instead of being dependent of other people or pushed aside because of the possibility of nepotism, is the better more enjoyable method in the long run.

Some things on Impulse were not great, the lack of OTA SVs, RANGERs being fake, no real scanners, Vorts being just a wallhack tool. Yet, Impulse was for the longest time the only server without a WL mechanic and it went great for the longest time. It allowed players to just do one thing and one thing great, play the game without a worry of "I need to promote" or "I need merits", if they wanted to promote to SV they applied and showed it, the community and SV selected who was actually deserved it. If they didn't want to promote they still could hop on i1 and lead their 4 person PT and just have fun.

+1 this response. In total agreement with scott.