OTA armor rework

[DarthSidious.exe]

OTA armor as it (SPS based) as 2 extreme, you have SPS and therefore tank almost EVERYTHING, or you dont and therefore you have no protection. this create a unbalanced situation where the OTA can just throw themselves at a problem, as long as they have SPS, they are completely fine, the moment they loose it they become paper.

to fix this i propose a solution (original idea by lifetimethiccness and discussed during a combine command meeting where we agreed on it)

First step, get rid of the SPS.
Second step, replace it with damage reduction.
grunts (when added) : 30% Damage reduction.

Soldiers: 50% (same as the rebel salvaged OTA vest) (could also be a BIT higher if we want to add the fact that the armor was repaired with scraps, if we follow that route my suggested value is 55-60%)
Elites (i do not know the DR value of the elite vest so either its the same or we add a little bit more if we want to add the fact that the armor was repaired with scraps)

for supervisory ranks in order to have them differenciate from the soldiers in term of survivability 2 options:
- give them a little bit more HP depending on the rank (ex: OVC get 110 HP, LDR 120, ODL, 130, OWC 150)
- Divisions suchs as SUPRESSOR could get somemthing like 130 HP and 60-65% DR since they are tankier and slower.
- give them a LITTLE bit of SPS (ex: OVC get 5, LDR 10, ODL 20, OWC 30)

note: this will be done in tandem with other balance changes, to give them combat advantages other than being a bullet sponge (ex: able to carry more grenades, manhacks ect... )

 

[Imperial Knight]

Replacing SPS with constant damage resistance would actually be a buff for OTA, not a nerf. Currently the damage resistance is based on SPS. Lower SPS = lower damage resistance. Higher SPS = higher damage resistance. SPS is lost from being damaged and gained by recharging with Combine Chargers. Would adjusting the damage resistance of that not be a better option? With your suggestion of removing SPS armor and replacing it with constant damage resistance, it'd be removing a gameplay mechanic of recharging armor.

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

Replacing SPS with constant damage resistance would actually be a buff for OTA, not a nerf. Currently the damage resistance is based on SPS. Lower SPS = lower damage resistance. Higher SPS = higher damage resistance. SPS is lost from being damaged and gained by recharging with Combine Chargers. Would adjusting the damage resistance of that not be a better option? With your suggestion of removing SPS armor and replacing it with constant damage resistance, it'd be removing a gameplay mechanic of recharging armor.

Im not convinced that it would be a straight buff. It would just adjust how the OTAs survivability works. Basically, instead of tanking an entire mag dump (which is way too fucking spoungy) and being weak ass hell afterwards (way too far down the other end of the spectrum), we would be getting somewhere atleast near the goldilocks zone.

Also you act like removing the mechanic of recharging armor is a bad thing; its just a byproduct of having a faction that has SP. Its hardly anything that stands on its own legs.

 

[Kæyzee]

Neutral

 

[Imperial Knight]

Im not convinced that it would be a straight buff. It would just adjust how the OTAs survivability works. Basically, instead of tanking an entire mag dump (which is way too fucking spoungy) and being weak ass hell afterwards (way too far down the other end of the spectrum), we would be getting somewhere atleast near the goldilocks zone.

Removing having to recharge armor to have damage reduction is literally a buff.

Also you act like removing the mechanic of recharging armor is a bad thing

Removing gameplay features that were previously highly requested is generally a bad thing if you don't have something better to replace them.

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

Removing having to recharge armor to have damage reduction is literally a buff.

Removing gameplay features that were previously highly requested is generally a bad thing if you don't have something better to replace them.

Not nessesairly considering they'd be easier to kill with just ONE damage reduction system. Hell, we can test this if you want.

Just because it was requested then dosent mean its needed now. We had a talk about this, and alot of the combine command were down with it.

 

[Imperial Knight]

Not nessesairly considering they'd be easier to kill with just ONE damage reduction system. Hell, we can test this if you want.

Just because it was requested then dosent mean its needed now. We had a talk about this, and alot of the combine command were down with it.

We're not looking to remove entire gameplay features without very serious consideration. In most cases they can be changed to fix issues rather than being completely removed or replaced. Keep in mind having to work on replacing existing things takes away time from new features and our roadmap.

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

Not to be mean, but... Its just a armor system that comes with gmod, and a healing item tied to a system that i personally view to be unnecessary.
Correct me if im wrong, but surely it wouldn't be that hard to add back if people aren't pleased with DR?

And as for serious consideration, we as a community gave it a good hard look, and came into a agreement. Is that not what you want?

 

[Imperial Knight]

Not to be mean, but... Its just a armor system that comes with gmod, and a healing item tied to a system that i personally view to be unnecessary.
Correct me if im wrong, but surely it wouldn't be that hard to add back if people aren't pleased with DR?

This isn't correct, I don't think you understand the Combine Armor or SPS system on Astronet.

And as for serious consideration, we as a community gave it a good hard look, and came into a agreement. Is that not what you want?

You don't represent the community in any official role or speak for them, those that support this change can come give their feedback here and +1/-1.

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

Im not saying i do, but we did talk about this. You can go talk to the combine command and ask them.

 

[Law]

I have felt mixed about this proposal, it feels strange to remove the mechanics of armour chargers and SPS lore wise.
I don't have much experience with rebels vs OTA gameplay, so I don't have any strong stance on it.

This isn't correct, I don't think you understand the Combine Armor or SPS system on Astronet.

I think we were all under the impression that it was the standard hl2 armour, and not editable.
I would prefer to see the resistance of SPS adjusted, instead of removing it altogether.

And as for serious consideration, we as a community gave it a good hard look, and came into a agreement. Is that not what you want?

I'd like to clarify that the meeting we had was a combine one, not a community one. The agreements we landed on were for what to propose, not something final.
I did not initially intend for the meeting to include topics outside of combine policies, but it was good to discuss other topics nonetheless and gave us a lot to think about.

Im not saying i do, but we did talk about this. You can go talk to the combine command and ask them.

I think the point trying to be made, is that the community as a whole need to agree as this is something that affects every player and is a major proposed change to the server. There were many people who were not present for the meeting. Everyone who wants to contribute need to come onto the forums, read the written proposal to ensure clarity and then give their -/+ support along with their thoughts. Each player has to represent themselves.

I think it's good to have meetings; they're great for coming up with all sorts of ideas, getting an idea of general feelings of a subject, coming up with an agreeable suggestion, building momentum and interest. But at a point it needs to come onto the forums so that everything can be kept track of. It's important the discussion is openly available to be read and able to contributed to at anytime, so that the community at large can come to a consensus together.

 

[cabby]

This isn't correct, I don't think you understand the Combine Armor or SPS system on Astronet.

You don't represent the community in any official role or speak for them, those that support this change can come give their feedback here and +1/-1.

if i may say the main idea behind removing sps from what i understand (i wont take a stance against or for it) is mostly due to how weird sps functions and the fact it makes ota both weaker and stronger than a straight damage reduction would for example sps has a thing where it will HEAVILY reduce singular high damage hits even if your on around 5 sps (a good example being the fact as a sql which only gets 10 sps i can tank a sako headshot and be left around 10-20 hp) and the fact that once you lose sps your just a borderline cca with a rifle is also somewhat jank balance wise at time if i where to suggest anything i feel like a sps rework instead of complete removal would be good to fix issues like having 5 sps just letting you tank what would normally instakill. again i think sps is kinda ok as of right now but im not against a rework or system change

 

[cabby]

if i may say the main idea behind removing sps from what i understand (i wont take a stance against or for it) is mostly due to how weird sps functions and the fact it makes ota both weaker and stronger than a straight damage reduction would for example sps has a thing where it will HEAVILY reduce singular high damage hits even if your on around 5 sps (a good example being the fact as a sql which only gets 10 sps i can tank a sako headshot and be left around 10-20 hp) and the fact that once you lose sps your just a borderline cca with a rifle is also somewhat jank balance wise at time if i where to suggest anything i feel like a sps rework instead of complete removal would be good to fix issues like having 5 sps just letting you tank what would normally instakill. again i think sps is kinda ok as of right now but im not against a rework or system change

genuinly at times i feel as safe on extremely low sps as i would full sps due to a basically guaranteed survival of heavy hitting shots which does become a heavy issue due to certain higher tier guns being useless against sps like the sako

 

[aip aseald]

Neutral
As it is required to forward my personal input, I decide to personally stay neutral on the matter. However, as discussed during balancing team and alike combine hicom meetings, Overwatch command has reached the agreement to see how this change would impact overall gameplay of the server on the premise that OTA are way too tanky and unfun to fight against(objective opinion).

Personally, I believed they were fine as is, as in my opinion, rebel RP as a whole should be more or less about survival, gathering strength in numbers rather than going out to fight soldiers(which should've acted as an element to be avoided unless really prepared, provided they use hit and run tactics rather than await combine response, which would be harsher).

Nonetheless, observing the opinion of Imperial, I can see why removing an entire mechanic for the sole purpose of testing only to possibly switch up around and go back at it can be tiring and unnecessary. Aside from my personal opinion regarding OTA, a large majority of the playerbase has suggested that the overall strength of your average soldier is looked at, which I see fitting to happen before/during the release of further combine updates.

 

[Walet White]

would't reducing the amount sps ota have fix the issue of them being too spongy?
for example ota can tank a sako headshot and 2-3 bodyshots and that is insane

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

would't reducing the amount sps ota have fix the issue of them being too spongy?
for example ota can tank a sako headshot and 2-3 bodyshots and that is insane

SP can soak up the large majority of damage even at real low values. Thats sorta one of the catches with them. Granted, for high RoF weapons, it'd probably be much better, but you'll still have snipers wondering how the fuck that OTA survived that headshot.

 

[Walet White]

SP can soak up the large majority of damage even at real low values. Thats sorta one of the catches with them. Granted, for high RoF weapons, it'd probably be much better, but you'll still have snipers wondering how the fuck that OTA survived that headshot.

i don't mind them tanking the first headshot but after a bodyshot following the headshot they should be dead

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

(Granted, that would still happen if we just gave OTA 50% DR, but i heavily prefer consistency over SP weirdness.)

 

[Law]

NEUTRAL
I think most of us agree that OTA are too tanky, it's just a matter of what method to address the issue.
Knowing that the SPS system itself can be adjusted now, I believe adjusting the resistance of SPS would make a more viable suggestion.

 

[LifetimeThiccness]

NEUTRAL
I think most of us agree that OTA are too tanky, it's just a matter of what method to address the issue.
Knowing that the SPS system itself can be adjusted now, I believe adjusting the resistance of SPS would make a more viable suggestion.

I suppose it doesn't really matter how the matter is solved so long as we agree that it needs to be solved. But my opinions still stand.